Comments on: Is the Pretense of the Open Web Gone? http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/ Just an average guy trying to drink above average beer. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Robert O'Callahan http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72598 Robert O'Callahan Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:13:15 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72598 We've been incubating our canvas3d experiment at Mozilla for a while now, but we haven't shipped anything in a product. The announcement you link to is about getting Khronos involved. Khronos is a standards organization, they manage OpenGL. So we announce we're working with a recognized standards organization to standardize Canvas 3D, before we ship anything, and you take that as a cue to comment about how browser vendors aren't working with standards? Weird. We’ve been incubating our canvas3d experiment at Mozilla for a while now, but we haven’t shipped anything in a product. The announcement you link to is about getting Khronos involved. Khronos is a standards organization, they manage OpenGL.

So we announce we’re working with a recognized standards organization to standardize Canvas 3D, before we ship anything, and you take that as a cue to comment about how browser vendors aren’t working with standards? Weird.

]]> By: Michael http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72236 Michael Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:52:18 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72236 Browsers have pushed their own innovations for a long time. Standards always lag, and are often more of a matter of politics than anything else. Let's not forget that Microsoft invented XMLHttpRequest. It was no standard. Others copied it and only then did it become a standard. Canvas was invented by Safari, only later on it became a standard and was adopted by Mozilla. It is a worthless standard though, because of the 75% of browsers (flavors of IE) that do not implement it. @JulesLt -- RSL for JavaScript? Most major sites put their common JS in a shared file, put an expiry date far in the future, and push that to a CDN. That gives you everything an RSL gives you. If you want to cache across sites, you could use Google's Ajax Libraries: http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlibs/ . That's even better than RSLs, since you cache across sites, something you can only currently do with the Flex framework. Browsers have pushed their own innovations for a long time. Standards always lag, and are often more of a matter of politics than anything else. Let’s not forget that Microsoft invented XMLHttpRequest. It was no standard. Others copied it and only then did it become a standard. Canvas was invented by Safari, only later on it became a standard and was adopted by Mozilla. It is a worthless standard though, because of the 75% of browsers (flavors of IE) that do not implement it.

@JulesLt — RSL for JavaScript? Most major sites put their common JS in a shared file, put an expiry date far in the future, and push that to a CDN. That gives you everything an RSL gives you. If you want to cache across sites, you could use Google’s Ajax Libraries: http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlibs/ . That’s even better than RSLs, since you cache across sites, something you can only currently do with the Flex framework.

]]> By: ryanstewart http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72215 ryanstewart Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:50:39 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72215 @Bjorn, nope, it's not meant as a dig against Mozilla. Google has been arguably the worst offender but I feel like Mozilla has been taking the high road in most situations. As I said, I don't blame them, but the fact that they're starting to move in the same direction as everyone else was notable. @JulesLt, I like the RSL idea for JavaScript frameworks. Definitely an area where Adobe could provide soe good input and ideas I think. =Ryan @Bjorn, nope, it’s not meant as a dig against Mozilla. Google has been arguably the worst offender but I feel like Mozilla has been taking the high road in most situations. As I said, I don’t blame them, but the fact that they’re starting to move in the same direction as everyone else was notable.

@JulesLt, I like the RSL idea for JavaScript frameworks. Definitely an area where Adobe could provide soe good input and ideas I think.

=Ryan

]]> By: JulesLt http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72169 JulesLt Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:06:47 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72169 Harry - that's very much it. If you read Tim Berners-Lee's 'Weaving the Web' you realise that HTML and XML 1.0 were innovation phase - you can see that by all the sensible and more complex changes since. C, Unix, Linux (LSB) are also all examples of technologies where the 'standardisation' phase came later - and indeed the same is true of many other programming languages. I'm still not 100% convinced of the idea of downloading vast chunks of JavaScript when I visit web-sites - browser vendors need to sort out something like Flash RSL for JavaScript frameworks, or we will have the worst of both worlds. Harry – that’s very much it. If you read Tim Berners-Lee’s ‘Weaving the Web’ you realise that HTML and XML 1.0 were innovation phase – you can see that by all the sensible and more complex changes since.

C, Unix, Linux (LSB) are also all examples of technologies where the ‘standardisation’ phase came later – and indeed the same is true of many other programming languages.

I’m still not 100% convinced of the idea of downloading vast chunks of JavaScript when I visit web-sites – browser vendors need to sort out something like Flash RSL for JavaScript frameworks, or we will have the worst of both worlds.

]]> By: Bjorn Schultheiss http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72167 Bjorn Schultheiss Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:59:17 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72167 If this article is a dig at mozilla trying to bring them down to the level of Adobe, then that's a pretty lame argument. The fact that flash is closed means as a developer i have to consider whether to use flash or js based on there capabilities. If it was all open i feel we would be 5 years ahead in available capabilities than what we currently are. If this article is a dig at mozilla trying to bring them down to the level of Adobe, then that’s a pretty lame argument.

The fact that flash is closed means as a developer i have to consider whether to use flash or js based on there capabilities.

If it was all open i feel we would be 5 years ahead in available capabilities than what we currently are.

]]> By: Harry http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72155 Harry Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:23:53 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72155 Perhaps it's that innovation happens in one phase, and then open standards happen in the next. W3C isn't just now getting behind the times. They have always been behind the times. It's their job to ensure that they are standardizing something solid rather than something trendy that won't have staying power. So for right now, I'm just gonna sit back, add a few more tweens to a few more rotationY properties, and give them something new to standardize! Perhaps it’s that innovation happens in one phase, and then open standards happen in the next.

W3C isn’t just now getting behind the times. They have always been behind the times. It’s their job to ensure that they are standardizing something solid rather than something trendy that won’t have staying power.

So for right now, I’m just gonna sit back, add a few more tweens to a few more rotationY properties, and give them something new to standardize!

]]> By: polyGeek http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/03/is-the-pretense-of-the-open-web-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-72154 polyGeek Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:22:20 +0000 http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1751#comment-72154 It's amazing the work that goes into HTML/CSS standards. I don't get it. The only HTML tags anyone would ever need is Object/Embed. :) It’s amazing the work that goes into HTML/CSS standards. I don’t get it. The only HTML tags anyone would ever need is Object/Embed. :)

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