I Promise, I Do Not Hate Ajax

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Owen called me out, and rightly so (although Owen, ‘respected’, no way) :) . Between my ZDNet post and my post responding to Rey, I look like a pretty big Ajax hater. And I’ve been accused of a whole lot of fear mongering and incendiary writing. I’m not going to shy away from thought provoking posts, which is what my ZDNet article was intended to do just that. And I think I usually do a good job of sticking to the facts, as Owen says we should. I think there are going to be some serious compatibility issues down the road. A post by JD today made me think even more about that. What can we expect from browsers developed in China or India? Will they follow all the rules? Will Ajax apps run on a browser that 1 billion Chinese use written by a Chinese company? Who knows. With Flash, it’s not an issue.

What I want to stress is that I am all for using the right tool for the right job. I’ve talked about that before. I even put a big stop sign! But my main problem with Ajax is that more and more people are using it to build entire web applications. I think Ajax adds great functionality to the web, and it makes the entire experience better, but if you are trying to replicate the desktop application experience in Ajax, you are going to fall short. You’re going to spend valuable developer time and a lot of energy implementing a solution that will be second rate – especially as multimedia and collaboration become bigger parts of Rich Internet Applications.

I agree wholeheartedly with Owen that a factually, intelligent “debate” over Ajax and Flex is good. However I also think we need to look at EVERY angle, and if we get some heated posts every once in a while, we just need to wade through them.

[tags]Ajax, Flash, Flash Platform, Rich Internet Applications[/tags]

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  • mikeD

    Pfft, AJAX is teh suck!

  • http://www.reybango.com Rey Bango

    Hi Ryan. You see, we agree on some things after all:

    “but if you are trying to replicate the desktop application experience in Ajax, you are going to fall short.”

    This is inline with what I was trying to say in my original post. I would never try to replicate the desktop on the Internet because I don’t think that the ‘Net lends itself to handling that type of functionality. I think this is where products like Flex 2 and Lazlo REALLY shine and why I think they are best suited for corporate environments where desktop applications are pervasive and things such as bandwidth, OS and hardware requirements are better managed.

    Its not to say that you can’t take a Flex 2 app and throw it onto the web. I believe Goowy is an example of a Flex app isn’t it? But having built true enterprise-class client/server desktop apps before using PowerBuilder (specifically in a multi-tiered environment), I know the intricacies and requirements involved in making these types of apps perform appropriately and as well as the impact on development time.

    By the same token, alot of VERY smart people have done a GREAT job of building desktop-like applications using Ajax technologies that effectively scale and don’t suffer from the cross-browser issues you mentioned before. The guys at 37Signals have done an AMAZING job with their product line and their apps serve as an example of what can be done with browser-based technologies. Even the newly revamped Gucci.com site (prototype/scriptaculous) can be easily mistaken for a Flash site.

    So in the end, I think we do agree on some points and on the ones that we don’t, perhaps we’ll get to discuss it over a drink at a future conference.

    Best…

  • http://brianmriley.com/blog/ Brian Riley

    Ryan, I would have to whole-heartedly agree with you — people are using ajax for the wrong problem domains — leveraging the browser as your application platform is just silly — it’s original intent was to do no more than present text, not render and process an RIA…enter a real virtual machine positioned for robust, rich applications, The Flash Platform, with Flex as the means to this end.

    I have a similar set of posts probing the same set of questions and issues: http://brianmriley.com/blog/?p=29

    -riley

  • http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com Ryan Stewart

    Sorry I’m late to the game.

    Ray, excellent comments, and now I see where the fundamental difference is: do RIAs belong on the web, or are they more suited for the structured corporate environment? That’s one we’ll both have to hash out over the coming months, because I think your concerns are something that a lot of people have. Hopefully I can change some minds about that.

    Riley, I’m a big fan of your blog, and I’ve really enjoyed your series hashing out the Flex vs. Ajax debate. You and I should find a time to talk offline. Do you have Skype?

  • http://www.reybango.com Rey Bango

    Hi Ryan,

    I’m glad I was able to clear up some of my observations. I’m looking forward to your comments about these issues going forward.

    Rey…